S01 EP01 - Welcome to the First Episode of Faces of Postpartum - The Podcast!
Faces of Postpartum—The Podcast is a show about the postpartum period and its unique variations, hosted by Ariane Audet.
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S01E01
Chat with Ariane Audet and Bianca Moskaitis
In this week's episode, my dear friend Bianca Moskaitis and I share our birth and postpartum stories, talk about mental health, and asking for help.
Full Transcript
Ep.01 - Introduction
Welcome welcome, my lovies to faces of postpartum the podcast. I am Ariane Audet, writer, mom, photographer advocate, and founder of the project. In this podcast. I feature postpartum stories from parents informal discussions with friends about parenthood and interviews with passionate providers and experts.
Everything here is evidence-based, honest and heartfelt. So stick around for unfiltered talks about the postpartum period. It's always an honor to have you here.
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Ariane: [00:00:38] This is recording. You're fine, baby girl. Yes. Okay. What about you? H4NPro thing. It is fine. Better record. Now I have like a real charger. Is that something you're just going to die? God damn amazon battery rechargeable stuff. Anyway. So I'm going to try not to cough my life I promise I don't have COVID it's not going to go through the screen.
Bianca: [00:01:05] We can't cough anymore.
Ariane: [00:01:07] No, I know. I know he used to, I was at the playground with the girls and these two old women with masks and they were walking and one of them was coughing and she had an N 95 on and I was like, I don't trust you. Go away. Like, get, get the fuck away from us.
Like, you're dangerous.
Bianca: [00:01:26] You can't do anything anymore. You can't sneeze. You can't cough. You can't even go like this. *cough*.
Ariane: [00:01:32] I know I was with my grandparents and with a mask on and I have like those, like, I can't believe I'm recording that, but when I eat, I have reflux. So my dad has the same thing and we just cough like bad smokers.
And yeah, my aunt was looking at me like, are you going to infect grandparents? It's like, no, I'm just, you know, old, myself acid reflux. That's terrible.
Bianca: [00:01:55] Love that. No, I love it.
Ariane: [00:01:56] So today we are saying hi, for the first time technically the first time the first first time my recorder died. So we're doing it again, but I'm hopeful that it's just going to be for the best that we get our ducks in a row.
And now we are, we're just gonna like. Talk through that then.
Bianca: [00:02:16] Correct.
Ariane: [00:02:17] Even more amazing. And it was amazing the first time. So it's 7:00 AM this time. First time was 6:00 AM was a bit brutal too. So we still have our sexy voice, but yes.
Bianca: [00:02:29] It might be a little bit flush with some water at this time, compared to last time.
Ariane: [00:02:33] Yes. Or coffee.
Bianca: [00:02:35] Did you not yet? It is. It is happening.
Ariane: [00:02:39] Wow. You're very brave. Yeah, very, brave. Showing up here, not caffeinated.
Bianca: [00:02:45] I know I woke up and I was like, you know what, let me get this together. And then I realized I did more with the girls than I actually did get it. Yeah, they do that, right?
Ariane: [00:02:58] Yeah. Yes. Giving the, they keep telling you, like, please put your oxygen mask first. Okay.
Bianca: [00:03:03] I'm stuck with water for the moment.
Ariane: [00:03:05] All right. So today it's going to be very simple. We are just going to do a little backstory and present ourselves talk about our birth and postpartum journey and get to know each other.
And yeah, hopefully it's going to be entertaining, fun, moving.
Bianca: [00:03:25] I hope so.
Ariane: [00:03:25] Right.
Bianca: [00:03:26] And I hope that you connect with us as we start our journey together. That'd be nice. Yeah. Right. So you can follow us along and help relay your message and your stories as well throughout our journey.
Ariane: [00:03:39] Yeah, absolutely. So you want to go ahead with your own story?
Bianca: [00:03:44] Yeah, my story. So I'm 32 years. Young. I'm going to say, I'm going to say that after every the age, I'm 32 years young and I have two beautiful girls Fiona, and she will be four in February and a four, a two year old, who will be. Well a one year old, who'll be two, right? Yes. Yeah. We live in Reston Virginia and I'm thankful to have a loving husband that will help me take care of these crazy girls. We we decided to start our journey with children in 2016, we got married in 2015. For myself before we had children, I was a bit of a party person. How about that? I really enjoy going out going to breweries, going to festivals, going to wherever I could have fun. And then when we got married, all of a sudden I was like, I want to have a child.
And my husband was like, Oh, okay. All right, there we go. So it was kind of like a drastic.
Ariane: [00:04:51] So was he also a party husband?
Bianca: [00:04:54] Not so much. Right? So like he was more, he's more of like a home body person. He's very comfortable. Everything he needs is here. And I am that, of course when I'm in the house, but I do love to go some, you know, go out and have fun and do social drinking.
Right. So. When we decided to have children I put a lot of pressure on myself and I think I experienced a little bit of pre partum. Is that a thing? Antenatal anxiety ? So, and you know, I was psyching myself out on trying to conceive. I would cry often because all I thought about was you get married, you have children, you know, This whole cycle of putting yourself in a schedule.
I was very schedule oriented. Hence me being an executive assistant. So I scheduled, you know, childbirth, marriage, all of that. It's weird to say that, but that's just how,
I think a lot of us are like that . So when I did conceive. After I took my guard down cause I was like, you know what, forget it. If I get pregnant, I get pregnant. I'm tired of trying to, you know, figure out when I'm ovulating, when I'm doing this on this app, it was very stressful.
Ariane: [00:06:07] How long did you do it?
Bianca: [00:06:08] I did it from, so we got married in September, 2015 and we conceived in June, 2016. So I did it up until may. And I put myself through so much emotion up until may and then I let my guard down.and we conceived!
Ariane: [00:06:22] I hate when that happens like that. Everybody's telling, you just relax and you're like gonna punch you in the throat, right. Sometimes.
Bianca: [00:06:32] You know what? They're right and they're also wrong. You know, not everybody is the same, so you can't just relax. So I find it hard to believe that it's the same for everyone, right.
Ariane: [00:06:41] Because it's not.
Bianca: [00:06:42] It's really not. So yes, I let my guard down, but of course I was still thinking about it. But at that moment I was like, you know, it was going to whatever, whatever.
Ariane: [00:06:52] Did you go to the brewery and then you can see after the brewery?
Bianca: [00:06:56] So, yeah, I feel like that was the flow. I found out actually, after going on a tubing trip, we went there, we went over to Harper's ferry.
We did a tubing trip. We drank a lot of course cause you on that two day trip. And the next day I was like, I, I don't think this is a hangover. And then it rolled into the next day. Okay. And when I knew it rolled into the next day, I was like, Oh, it's not where, no, this is not a thing because you know, you can drink different things to like, make yourself recover and this wasn't happening.
And so I took a test. I went to work, I went to CVS, I went back to work and I took the test at work and I came out and I was like, Oh my God. Oh, all right, this is a thing. So. Yeah, it was very fun. And as the course of me, you know carrying Fiona, I was not working at the moment and it was nice, but I also felt lonely because I didn't have the normal people who I would have around me besides my husband.
And at that moment, because of the way my emotions are, I have a hard time opening up. So I never asked for help. I just kind of figured this is what you're supposed to do. I am supposed to be a mom. I'm supposed to do this. So my own, we're going to do this. Here we go. And so when it was time to give birth, I had to go to Arlington hospital because the doctor that I had, even though I was living in Bethesda at the time was at Virginia hospital center.
Ariane: [00:08:36] So far away.
Bianca: [00:08:37] Very far away. I lived two minutes from suburban hospital, but I did not want to have my child outside of my doctor network that I had grew up with. I wanted somebody who knew me. And it was good that they did because it was a practice of five women. And so when I went into labor, it was, it was about four o'clock in the afternoon.
Primetime rush time rush hour. It was something else. I had no idea what was happening to me. Of course. I was relaxed. You can be in my pajamas. I had just got off a lunch zoom call with my friend Fred and he was asking me, are you okay? And I was not feeling at my best during that call. So I went to the bathroom, I sat down and, you know, my fluids came out, but I had no idea it was that. Or I did, but I was also nervous.
Ariane: [00:09:28] Right. A little bit of denial was what I was about to say.
Bianca: [00:09:30] Yes, yes. Correct. And then after I was like, you know what, let me just try this again. So I sat back down and it happened again. I said, Oh, Oh, I don't think this is supposed to happen. So I called my doctor and she was like, yes, come on in. And my husband walks in the house and he's like, are you having my baby today?
And I was like, I think so. And then he was like, Oh really?
Ariane: [00:09:53] Or joking, just joking.
Bianca: [00:09:56] Yes. When I was like, yes, we probably should gather everything get out of here. So of course I had nothing packed and we gathered what we could and we left. I thought I still had time.
Ariane: [00:10:10] How far along were you?
Bianca: [00:10:13] About five days before.
Ariane: [00:10:15] Okay. Okay. So you were still 38, 39 weeks.
Bianca: [00:10:18] Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I was like, you know what, that's okay. I'm going to go ahead and go ahead and try to make it out here with nothing. Let's hop in the car. Cause I felt terrible and let's go ahead and drive our way down to Virginia hospital center.
And of course we got stuck in traffic on Chain Bridge and I was like I think I might have this child right here on this bridge. I just wanted to get out. It was in so much pain and the contractions were starting to pick up . And I had no idea what to do . You know, you learn those breathing exercises and you're like, this is terrible.
Ariane: [00:10:56] In the car it's pretty awful.
Bianca: [00:11:00] So we've finally made it to the hospital. They got me in there. And during the whole time I was actually on my way to the hospital I threw up.
Ariane: [00:11:08] Oh yeah. You mentioned that you were very, very sick right?
Bianca: [00:11:12] Threw up the whole time. I was actually really sick during the whole pregnancy. And during both, so I suffer from nausea.
And my nausea can come at any time of the day. And I didn't want to take medication to make that kind of like go away during the pregnancy. So I tried to deal with so many different like holistic things to get rid of it. And it didn't really work that well, but that's okay.
And when I got to the hospital, they gave me medicine and they said, we're going to give you this nausea medicine. And it helped for a little bit, so I didn't do it as much. But I had Fiona, I got to the hospital and they admitted around 7:00 PM. And had her at 1:25 or 1:29 AM. And that was pretty quick for me, cause I had no idea how quick that was going to.
Ariane: [00:11:59] It is quick for a first baby. Did you have an epidural?
Bianca: [00:12:01] I did get the epidural.
That was like the best thing ever. So just keep pushing the button. I had no idea that this button did that. I did it and I was like, Oh, Ooh. Oh, my goodness. They need to get this to us at home. No. So I was blessed to have somebody join us during my first pregnancy, which she is very close to me.
Her name is S., and I truly adore her because she helped me calm down from the moment I saw her face to the moment that, you know, she left the next day. She came in and I was in so much pain. My husband had no idea what to do. And he looked sad of course, as well. And the moment she walked in, we both started laughing.
And that was when the gentlemen came in for the epidural and I got it. And ever since then, we were laughing and joking and playing around. We even had to be told to be quiet by the nurses because we were so distracted with so much happiness. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. So when they decided everything is all set up, you have your epidural, you're here for a little bit.
It's already been an hour. Let's go ahead and go get something to eat. So they both left and went to go get something to eat in the hospital and by the time they came back. I was set up to have Fiona. Yeah. They walked in. They were like, Oh my God, what happened? What?
Ariane: [00:13:33] Is it the time where you told a nurse? I think it's coming. And she was like...
Bianca: [00:13:37] I told her, I said, you know what? I said, look, there was a specific nurse who told me that this was my first baby, that I literally was going to take a long time to labor. And that I, my feelings of her coming was not as serious as I thought it was. And I was like, no, this baby is going to fall out of me.
She's going to fall out right now. It's going to be your fault. I feel her coming. She goes like, no, no, it's okay. And then she left without checking you. And she left the room and then I buzzed again cause I was like, this is not okay. And my doctor came in and she was like, yep. All right, you're ready. Here we go.
And set me up. And I actually never saw the nurse again, but I was pretty disturbed at how she told me how I wasn't ready, but I knew I was.
Ariane: [00:14:25] Yeah, we need to trust the patient and mother and birthing people.
Bianca: [00:14:30] I trusted my body . Even though I didn't really understand everything that was happening in the room at the moment I was trusting my body. I knew it was time. So I finally got set up to be delivered. They walked back in the room. They're astonished at how quick that happened in about 20 minutes. And then it was time to push and I was in a state of like shock. So I pushed, but I also, it was kind of like, I don't think I'm doing this right. And I didn't even know that they can tell you're pushing.
So they're like, you got to push. And I was like, I think that my body isn't working because of the epidural.
Ariane: [00:15:10] That you gave yourself too much.
Bianca: [00:15:12] Yes. But then they were like, no, you're doing it. You're just releasing too quick. And I said whatever, I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing. And that happened.
She came out and they put her on me and I was like, Oh my Lord. All that yucky stuff and everything. But I looked at her and I was like, Oh, I did this. This is a thing. And my husband was crying. Cause you know, he watched the whole thing and he looked at me and my friends S. saw me cry. You know, I saw her crying and everybody's in the room, all emotional.
And I I was just still in shock. I hadn't really like shed a tear yet or anything because I was kinda like, Whoa, this is how this happens. And I had watched a lot of videos leading up to it, but when it's yourself, you're kind of like, okay. All right. And then with Sophia, I barely made it to the hospital.
I went into labor about midday. I think we were at lunch. Lunch is a good time to start. Labor is a great time to start laboring. Yep. Except for this time I was out, I was at the restaurant, so I was at the restaurant and I was not feeling too well. And I was moving side to side a lot shifting.
And my coworker and friend, she was like, what's going on? You all right over there? And I was like, Oh, she said, no, you're not. And I went to the bathroom and it happened to get a little bit of my fluids came out. And so when we were leaving, I didn't tell anyone, but she knew. And I was like, you know, what, can you help me get some car?
And she was like, you're about to have a baby. Yep. And she was like, okay, come here. And she helped me get to the car. She helped me get in. And during the whole car ride, I held in the fact that I needed to throw up. And as soon as I got out, my friend, Herb and Tamika were like so you should get back in the car.
We're going to take you home. And I was like, Nope. Just go ahead and take me back to my desk. I'll be all right. This is okay. And so they were like, okay, you can ask me, walk through the building. I started having contractions and I had one right with him and they were like, yeah. So it turned back around.
And they called my husband and they told him we were going to be home in two minutes. Dropped me off. And he came out running and he was like, let's go get your stuff. And of course I'm like, yeah, go ahead and go get my stuff. And I made it right to the bathroom because that was my comfort zone. And when I got to the toilet, I, my water broke and I was like, Oh my goodness, I can't go anywhere.
I have to have this baby right here, because that's how I felt as I was calling the doctor. And she was like, you have to get up, you have to get up off the floor. And I was like, I can't. I can't do it. And he came in the bathroom and found me. I was like, you have to get up. We're not having this baby in this bathroom.
I can't do it. And I was like, Oh, okay. And so he set me up to get in the car and we like sped down the toll road, down 66 and went, I don't even know how we showed up so quickly. We've never done that before. We got there. And when we got there, we immediately were met by this other couple that I felt like we had to fight for the wheelchair.
There was one of them at the time and the whole hospital too. That's right. It was one right there. And I was like, Oh, you better go get it. But that other husband made it in time. But his wife, I, I feel like she was literally in labor crowning as we were in the in the elevator together. Right. So I'm trying not to make too much noise and make her feel uncomfortable while she's there.
Like. And then she comes out of the elevator and she gets louder and louder. She goes up the hallway and she's like the baby's coming out of me. And I went into full blown tears. Yeah. So she had her baby literally within about 10 minutes being there. And I went to the counter and was met by no one because all the nurses were in her room trying to take care of her.
Yes. We wait, we waited at the counter for, I want to say about five minutes before nurses noticed that we were there and they saw me crying. They were like, Oh my God, what is happening today? And my husband's like, so I'm going to talk for her. She's a little traumatized by what's happening over here.
And they're like, Oh, let's get her in a room. Get her in the room. And after getting into a room, I had Sophia. I want to say, we got to the hospital around 2:30PM and I had her around 3:45. I feel it four o'clock.
Ariane: [00:20:09] So your baby was about to come too.
Bianca: [00:20:12] . She came in pretty quickly and I actually got nervous with Sophia it's so when they say it is time to push, I said, no, I looked at husband and I said, no, she can't come out. I'm so scared. He was like, Hmm. Do you want to be like this forever? And I said, no, she got to get out. There you go. But I was very nervous about pushing with Sophia and I have no idea why I'm not even sure. And I was very comfortable during the time where we were in the hospital.
I'm just not sure it automatically, when they said, alright, it's time to push. I was like, I'm petrified,
Ariane: [00:20:49] but you had the epidural then too?
Bianca: [00:20:51] So the epidural hadn't really kicked in. So I got the epidural when we showed up to the hospital, but it hadn't, by the time I birthed Sophia, it had just started to kick in. I felt her coming out.
Ariane: [00:21:04] So you think it's because you could feel the pain or?
Bianca: [00:21:08] Yeah, so I could sort of feel the pain and it started to subside as I was pushing her, but I think that is why I didn't want to push. Cause I could feel her still. Because I didn't get the epidural in a long, you know, it was pretty quick after getting it.
Ariane: [00:21:21] And then you got numb for hours after that.
Bianca: [00:21:24] I was numb for the rest of the night.
Ariane: [00:21:27] Yeah. At least you can't feel your vagina.
Bianca: [00:21:30] No, not at all. Nope. I laid in the bed and watched the Capital's game at night with her right on me. Sweet. Yes. So it was those journeys were something, I look back on all the time and I'm so thankful to experience childbirth.
But I do go through postpartum still. We never get over it. And you know, I'm just thankful that I have the opportunity to tell my story and tell more stories as we go along. Yeah.
Ariane: [00:22:00] And how was it to bring them back home?
Bianca: [00:22:03] It was with Fiona, it was scary. You leave the hospital and you're like, wow. They really just gave me this baby. I trust. They must really trust me. They shouldn't, but they really are trusting me. All right, here we go. Let's go to taco bell first. If you did, then we went home. Cause I was like, we gotta, we gotta get ourselves together for this. We gotta eat and then we gotta make sure we're ready when we go home.
Cause this is going to be hectic. And I could say that with Sophia bringing her home was fairly easy. We were ready. We were ready to get out of the hospital. And coming home to her and having Fiona see her was scary because when Fiona came to the hospital, she was like, Oh my gosh, hi and excited.
And she was like, all right. Yeah, yeah, I'm ready to leave. And then she left and I was like, Oh, okay. And I got kinda emotional cause I was like, my child doesn't like me or my baby. This was my, you know, this was my baby. I don't know how she is feeling right now. She's feeling like what is this? And then when we came home and she saw me sitting on the couch, when they opened the door with the infant, she ran back out.
And screamed no, and like started kind of crying and whatnot. And I was like, Ugh. And I started crying to you. Of course. Cause I was like, this is emotional. It makes me think of it. Now I get a little emotional because I had never imagined that my child would kind of like run away from the newborn, let alone me too.
So that was an experience. And it took her a little bit, maybe like a day or two to kind of get used to the fact that she has this infant in her space and she's here to stay. And she's, she's not going anywhere. Yep. So and now they're the best of friends. Yeah.
Ariane: [00:23:53] These reactions are fairly normal, but when you go through them, it's awful. You just feel.
Bianca: [00:23:59] You feel horrible . We made it out. Yeah.
Ariane: [00:24:02] And did you have help with your first and your second, did you ask for help?
Bianca: [00:24:06] My first one, you know, I had, I've had, I'm not going to discredit that I haven't had help during the whole process of me having the babies. It's more about my personality and not putting my feelings out there.
Like I should. So, you know, for me to ask help from my family, they're going to do it, you know, but they also are going to look at me like, Oh my God, you just asked us for help. Let's get out there because it's not a normal thing. The one cousin that I am so actually it's four of them that are very, very helpful.
We have a group chat and they literally checked up on me all the time. It was one cousin who we were about six months and twenty-five days apart, not that I'm counting that we are very close and she knew. So she felt that she knew that I was struggling and she would try to come over and bring us food and, you know, try to just sit with Fiona.
And then with Sophia, I did have the help automatically coming to me at that point, because I decided to let down my guard during my first child and asked for help.
Ariane: [00:25:14] And when you say you struggled with, do you mean by that?
Bianca: [00:25:16] What I mean, I struggled with asking for the help or struggle with...
Ariane: [00:25:20] No, yousaid your cousin felt that you were struggling.
Bianca: [00:25:23] Well, she knew that with the breastfeeding. It was a struggle. I had a very hard time breastfeeding with both of my girls, so I didn't really produce like I thought I was going to, and it depressed me. It made me get a little depressed. I was a little depressed. Right. So I went to a lactation clinic. The lactation clinic made me feel uncomfortable. And so I left that doctor and I only was able to breastfeed Fiona for about six to eight weeks. And it started to really dry up around the seven. And I was trying really hard to like do it. And then with Sophia, you know, after about two weeks, I, it was drying up. So I struggled with breastfeeding and that was a big part of the postpartum, you know, watching all these moms tell you you're supposed to be breastfeeding, your, your milk is what makes them the most healthiest. Why aren't you trying? You know, I literally had people tell me that.
Ariane: [00:26:19] So from, from like professionals or like people in your circle?
Bianca: [00:26:24] Like friends and, you know, whatnot and family, like they see with a formula about it. And they're like, why aren't you giving that baby? Your milk? Not everybody can do that.
Ariane: [00:26:33] Also, none of your business!
Bianca: [00:26:35] Right, exactly. Right. So it have a lot of people try to tell me what to do with my body and what to do with my child. And all I wanted to do was excuse my language and appropriately tell them to fuck off.
Right? So basically that's. That is what happened. And I got over it with Sophia a little bit quicker when it came to the breastfeeding, because I was already telling myself that I need to prepare myself to know that I might not be able to produce as much. And you already had the tools. Yeah. Right.
The guilt is a little less than the first one.
Ariane: [00:27:14] And now they're healthy and thriving.
Bianca: [00:27:17] And running all over the place.
Ariane: [00:27:19] And all over you!
Bianca: [00:27:20] Yes. Correct.
Ariane: [00:27:24] And when you say you had postpartum, it was it like a diagnosed postpartum depression or it was more anxiety or how did that manifest?
Bianca: [00:27:31] Anxiety. So, you know, I deal with a lot of anxiety. I I'm one of those moms that I check up on my children throughout the night. Every two hours or three hours or so I'm that person that checks doors at night to make sure that our family is safe and, you know, I'm just always thinking my mind never rest. And it's it's, it's a struggle to kind of deal with that because you're always worried about what if this happens to my child. Is my child okay. Are they running? Are they playing with this? Do they have anything that they're going to choke on up there? And they're run by herself. It's so much that goes. Through my mind, but you wouldn't really know that at least some of the teachers from my preschool tell me that they wouldn't really know that because they feel like I'm such a chill, relaxed mom, but that's also kind of like a, a shield for me.
I'd rather keep my worries and my thoughts and whatnot, and not scare you with what I'm thinking. Because sometimes it could just be me just overthinking. Or it could be me getting a genuine feeling that, Oh, maybe this isn't right. And maybe try to analyze what's happening. But I do go through a lot of anxiety.
And when I went to the doctors, the doctor was like, you might be suffering through some postpartum. And here are some resources. So I wasn't really like, here's a prescription for anything. It was more of like, you are, this is what's happening. Here are some resources, but it was a lot of pamphlets and whatnot not anything that's going to help me really.
Ariane: [00:28:59] Yeah. It's, it's interesting. And it's a step in the right direction, these pamphlets, because at least it makes you know, it exists, but you still have to make the effort and do the work to reach out to other professionals when you don't have, you know, like the intervention we need to happen directly when that pamphlet is handed. That would, the care would need to start there. And it doesn't , there's missing link here in the. Chain of care. I know I can.
Bianca: [00:29:34] I agree with you. Yeah, no, you're kind of handed this bag of stuff when you leave the hospital. But when you leave the hospital, there's no one to call and check up on you afterwards.
You're told to call and check up on yourself in a sense you're told to call the doctor's office, go and go and get your checkups. Right.
Ariane: [00:29:52] Six weeks when we all know now that. You know, some of it might take a year to kick in.
Bianca: [00:29:59] So, and it's kind of like if you had that doctor, when you're in the hospital, be like, this is a person who we'd like to connect you with, she's going to contact you, you know, and you kind of like start that process because.
That's just not going to happen with moms. They're literally told, all right, here you go. We got another mom rolling up in here. You got to get on out .
Ariane: [00:30:19] The focus is mostly on the baby and the mom. I had this dream with not a night dream, but a real dream with a friend of mine. Who's a therapist, and she said, how amazing would that be? If counselors would. Go directly to their room right after the mom had the person had given birth and say, yeah, how are you?
Bianca: [00:30:42] I would love that.
Ariane: [00:30:43] How was the, how was the, the birth first of? Because we know that birds can be extremely traumatizing. And by talking about it straight from the get-go, it might alleviate a lot of the trauma.
Staying with your trauma is proven that it's just going to make it worse. So having someone like stop the boulder, the bouler right away would be great. And beyond that, here's my card. If you ever want to talk, reach out. On this right away that would be.
Bianca: [00:31:13] Totally agree with you. Yeah. That would be the most ideal situation, but it's unfortunate that they don't set us up like that.
Right. You're kind of just left on your own, trying to find your resources, asking questions from other people and whatnot. And then you're kind of just. Like I said, you're making it right. You're winging it. You and I know I felt lost during some parts of postpartum with both children. But with with Sophia specifically after her I deal with a lot more anxiety than I imagined. So Sophia, she, she is all over the place.
I mean, that little girl can find danger all over the place. So what I worry about her the most over Fiona and I'm sure as she grows up, it'll get much better, but yeah, that's, that's my story .
Ariane: [00:32:07] Well, thank you for that. I know it's not easy to tell these stories and to be vulnerable and to know it's recorded and it's going to be put out there forever.
Bianca: [00:32:18] Yeah. But you know, when you do things like this, I would love, I just want people to understand that you can talk about it.
Ariane: [00:32:26] Yeah, I guess you said something earlier about not wanting to scare others. And it speaks, it says a lot about how aside from Instagram or, you know, some niche group on Facebook or some very specific individual in your life. If you're lucky, we don't talk about it. You know, you have. You have the, you prepare for the pregnancy and then you prepare for the birth.
And then you receive onesies and cute books. But in fact, we don't, we haven't normalized all the fluid that's going to come out of you afterwards. All the emotions and we're not, you know, we talked about the baby blues and it's such a condescending term. I feel like the baby blues, like, no, it's not sad.
It's not, it's not, it can be sad, but also it's beyond that. Like, let's just, you know, let's open up a space that is wider than two weeks instead of trying to contain the emotions that will inevitably come out of this experience and not just within two weeks, you know, it's a major identity shift. .
And you mentioned breastfeeding, and this is, we put so much pressure on the person who breastfeeds to the point where you feel you are, you are defined by your ability to breastfeed or not. And it's very it can be very triggering and, and.
Bianca: [00:33:50] Oh, it's very triggering.
Ariane: [00:33:51] Very, very difficult.
Bianca: [00:33:53] When I hear about people talk about how easy it is for them to breastfeed or they're gloating about how much they were able to put into a bottle, I do get into my feelings about it, and I don't know if others really understand that or see that right when they're talking about it, because for them, I don't want to discredit them on the accomplishment, it's just, it is a celebration. You literally just took that life from yourself to give it to your child.
And I think that is beautiful.
Ariane: [00:34:28] And...
Bianca: [00:34:28] I also think that you should be very mindful about people who you're speaking to about it, right? Because they might not have gone through the same experience as you, even though you're either having a great experience or struggling, just being mindful about how talking about it, but they should talk about it.
Ariane: [00:34:48] But the fact that we feel threatened by other people's experiences only means one thing is that we don't have space to welcome all experiences. We are not empowered to have a voice and to, to, to talk about these things. If we feel there's not enough spaces for everybody, it means like something somewhere is lacking and it's the safe space to welcome everything and be like, you, you, you don't have to feel lesser than because somebody else has had another experience.
Bianca: [00:35:24] Correct.
That's at least that's what I'm taking from my own. My own journey. And tell us about your journey. Yeah. That's I was just trying to sort of thing, where do I start? Well, as, as a lot of people know, I'm actually Canadian, hence the weird accent. I'm French Canadian, and I immigrated in the U S in 2016, got married in 2013.
So I have lived in two countries, had a long distance relationship. Traveled, had a very, you know, I was very privileged in life to go to grad school and Canada being what it is, finish a PhD without any debt. And coming from where I come, it was a huge cultural shock when I came to the US to say the least.
Oh, was it?
Ariane: [00:36:09] It was a year. Trump got elected.
Bianca: [00:36:12] Oh my Lord Jesus.
Ariane: [00:36:13] And the morning after I immigrated, my husband came down the steps and because we had talked about it before with a little box of baby converse, and it was saying like, what do you think?
Meaning, like, what do you think of you start trying to have babies. And I didn't want to find a job in academia, and then, I have to travel around because I knew that if I had a child, I wanted to take at least a year off again, based on the fact that we were lucky enough that my husband made enough money for both of us without also discrediting the fact that I had moved, I had uprooted myself for that, you know?
Yes. He had the big paycheck and we were lucky, but also, you know, I left everything behind too.
Bianca: [00:36:56] You had left your family and friends.
Ariane: [00:36:58] And so I was lucky. I got pregnant very quickly and I treated it as a project. I was like, okay, this is: a dissertation having a is the same thing. I was just gonna, you know, make to-do lists and it's should be fine.
Of course it didn't end up being like that. The pregnancy went fine. But looking back, I had a lot of anxiety and we didn't want to do a home birth for the first one, but I having suffered from obstetric violence in the past, I had elected to go with a midwife practice that also delivered in a natural birth center, attached to a hospital.
Which, knowing what I know now, again, the hospital side and the natural birth center, were like bumping heads a lot. And there was a lot more power what are not like the protocols and the midwives had to fight for, you know, evidence-based science regard and also the hospital protocols, which are a private organization.
If you think about it . Anyway. So I got, I found myself kind of in the middle of that and it was far away. It was an hour away. So same thing, as soon as I started to have contractions, I had eaten so much crap that day, like waffle, I think I told you that like silver diner and then matchbox and then duck donuts.
And then at 3:00 PM and we had walked the Potomac Mill mall for three hours. I was exhausted by the time I started to have the contractions. And when I got in, when they checked me, it was first of the worst pain I've ever felt. I'm hopeful that cervical checks will become optional because they don't say a lot and they're very painful and they don't, you know, unless you're really deep into labor and you're like, okay, like something's got to happen and so we need to check where you are, they're absolutely unnecessary. And they hurt like, hell. So please stop something that . They're very triggering to, for survive research, sexual assault, like myself, or obstetric violence. And it's just, it's. Get them away, you know? And she broke my water.
She tore the rest of the bag. And so therefore my contractions started to become way more intense. Did she know that. She didn't do it on purpose? It's just like she wiggled and my water had already broken a little bit, but by checking, she just got the rest of it out. Which then made the labor, very, very painful, but I, you know, I, I powered through it, but eventually at 8:00 AM the morning after I was exhausted it had been 12 hours.
And by protocol I needed to be transferred because I was GBS positive. It's another thing. Anyway I had received my antibiotics, so it's not like if there was any danger, but I got transferred to the hospital side and the nurse who came in, he was 8:00 AM. Change of shift super peppy. And she's like, well, let's have this baby.
And I'm like, get the fuck out of here. You stink. And I felt like her perfume stinks so much. Oh yeah. And she was like, that's fine. I don't care. You know, you're just one of many who insulted me while giving birth . She became my favorite of course, but she was just very grounded and just like, I know what I'm doing.
I knew what was happening exactly where everybody's fine .
Bianca: [00:40:04] Isn't it crazy that you have people who are so calm with you during that whole process, as you are so all over.
Ariane: [00:40:14] And you have to be a really special human to walk the line between being assertive and respectful, because you can be very assertive and not respect the patient at all and just create more trauma. And she was not that it was more like, just very reassuring, like you're giving birth. You're not sick. It's normal. You know, we're gonna, we're here with you. We're gonna respect and support you and you know, it's going to be fine. And then you come to trust that person. And so after I dunno, eight hours, I got myself the epidural, which was, you know, absolutely wonderful. I'm always kind of flabbergasted when the anesthesiologist is like, ma'am, you're going to have to step moving. And I'm like, Mr. If you feel like your ass is about to tear apart one day, and I hope for the sake of this experiment, you do, you will know that it's not easy to do, you know, like what, what dumb comment is that?
Yeah, sure, I'm good. Yeah. I don't want to be paralyzed idiot, but I'm having like massive contraction shut up. And so I got the epidural, gave myself a lot of medication thinking I was calling the nurse.
Bianca: [00:41:21] Well, you said that you were doing this. I was like, Oh, I knew I did that a few times and how glorious.
Ariane: [00:41:28] Glorious, but I, I topped it. This is how much I gave myself in like literally five minutes,
Bianca: [00:41:34] You sucked up the whole bag?
Ariane: [00:41:35] I sucked up the whole thing. And at some point it stops giving you any, because they're like, this person is an addict. We can't let her do that. And then the nurse came and she was like, Oh boy, what happened? And I was like, look at that.
I can feel them and I can still move them. And, and I gave her to Lou and I remember first, if we didn't know it was a little girl, so we were happy because we had no idea. Yeah. We kept it a surprise to that.
Bianca: [00:42:02] My anxiety would not let me do that.
Ariane: [00:42:04] But it's funny. I was like, we're old, so we don't have a lot of surprise anymore in our lives. So let's just, you know . Let's just wait and see. And it was actually exciting. It was an exciting thing to do. And we did the same one our second, which thank God, it was a girl because we didn't have any boys name.
Bianca: [00:42:22] Oh Lord. You just put me into a hole. Wow.
Ariane: [00:42:26] As long as I don't like put shovel any dirt on you it's okay.
Bianca: [00:42:29] No, but that is like, I would have loved to do that, to have that element of surprise from both children, but I tried, it was not.
Ariane: [00:42:39] But it's, I don't know. I tried to be like, I know it's going to be worth it, I guess it was that. And, and also we had chosen gender neutral name. We are these people, you know, let's just put it out there. We are these gender neutral kind of people. Yeah, we wear red beanies we're kind of hipster a little. Oh, we're, I'm very candid kit.
Bianca: [00:43:04] You're talking to a very hipster person right here.
Ariane: [00:43:07] So it's funny because we know each other, but not that much. And we've heard that story before, because. I fucked up with my recorder, but we still don't know a lot of things about each other, so that's right.
Okay. So she put, she helped me put her on the breast and then she left and I was like, huh, what am I supposed to do with that? She was so I let her there for 40 minutes, which was a bad idea for my inverted nipple who had to be broken into the flesh.
That had to hurt like it crazy.
Because I was this whole nipple confusing and stuff.
I didn't want to give her a pacifier. So I would give her my pinky and my knuckles, and it would turn blue because she would bruise me cause she would be, her suckling was just so intense. And so from literally the first two hours, I was bleeding everywhere and. I was freaking out. Then someone was like, have you heard of APNO cream?
And I was like, what is this thing? And the APNO cream is just the glory cream, you put on your nipple and it's like, it's a compound, so you, you need a prescription which shouldn't happen. They should just give it away for free. It's like, make it rain, make it rain if you want to breastfeed. And it helped, but all this, it took me like about a week to be able to figure out this whole breastfeeding thing and I would pump.
And so it's just a full time job. And on my second appointment with the pediatrician, she said, I had. Made an appointment with my pediatrician and somehow somebody else has showed up and I was already like ridden with anxiety and not feeling well and not sleeping and checking on her breathing. And in retrospect, again, I always had dealt with anxiety in my life, but handled it with extreme discipline. And now the discipline was gone and the routine was gone and his baby was taking all the space. And I was like, I am not going to survive that. Already I knew that from the get-go and showing up in this pediatrician office, she was like, well, your baby lost a lot of weight .
Your milk is not enough. And she texts books said that your milk is not enough. So therefore you're going to have to supplement. And she left. What I heard is: I am not enough. And so I went home and I think by then, I had found, I think Lou must have been four months old, so it was longer than that.
But by then , I would not sleep. I could not nap . Because I was, I was too anxious. I was afraid to drive because I thought we're going to die . And I had found a therapist. And I had showed up in her office and said, so I have these issues with my mother. And she was like, you have other issues talking about your mother.
I think postpartum depression is looming. Yes. And she was like, let's just, you know, take clear that out before we talk about your mother's issues. Yep. And I was like, Nope. Nope. I'm sure I don't. I'm all fine. I'm all good. And she's like, let me, let me call a colleague of mine.
She's actually leaving this week, but she's a specialist and I met with her and her name is Elizabeth Wilkins McKee and she's a perinatal counselor. She lives in Manassas. It's a shameless plug for her because she's helped so many people in Prince William County where I used to live. And I remember she was, she had a cold and she had the, the office of a therapist.
Like you imagine, you know, Cushions and blanket and she was wrapped in a shawl and, and sh say she was your typical TV therapist. Absolutely. Very caring.
And I tried the best I could to fake it, I guess, but she saw right through me and she took a little notepad and she was like, here's what you're going to do. You're going to try to sleep four to five hours of an interim uninterrupted. I can't say that word uninterruptedly. And I was like, yes, but my husband is working and she's like, and so are you, you're working during the day.
You're feeding this child, you're keeping this child alive. Your husband's got, it's got to help. He's got to help out. Yes. And she's like, if you can't sleep, you're going to ask your doctor to prescribe X, Y, and Z. And so I agreed to some and try to fight other, but by then, it was just a little too late and the anxiety and also meeting her and the previous therapist, it was like a dam had open.
And so I was able to come flooding in and I felt someone would welcome me. So I just broke. And that Sunday I texted her and I had just heard my husband upstairs with my daughter and they were laughing, and it was by month four or five . And the first thing that came to my mind was, well, I don't need to live anymore.
They're so happy together. I can kill myself.
Bianca: [00:48:16] And isn't that crazy that you feel that way or that you think those thoughts?
Ariane: [00:48:19] Yes. And it was, it, it felt like the most normal thing to do. It was incredibly painful, but it felt like the thing that needed to be done. And so I texted my therapist and I was like, Hey, I just had this thought.
And she was like, well, now that you voiced that you're going to go straight to the ER and you gonna pass for help and make sure you're safe. I went and stayed there for a little while when that Fairfax Inova, Fairfax. And luckily I, I found there a doctor, an ER, doctor that was welcoming, which is not always the case as I've come to realize.
And they allowed me to go back home, on the basis of me checking in with them. But the intrusive thoughts kept coming and by the end of that week Elizabeth had suggested I go to UNC where they have Psychiatric units specifically for moms. It's a perinatal unit. Inova. Fairfax just opened one.
Which is absolutely awesome.
It's in North Carolina. So again, I was privileged enough to be able, my husband took one week off. We packed our thing, packed our little baby. Not knowing where they would sleep that night, but , drove the four hours.
I think it took six hours with 95 and the traffic. It was just awful. And it was the most terrifying, yet amazing time of my life. I would meet with psychiatrists every morning. I would have group therapy. That was just the five of us. So we had the right to have visitors. So nice. There was a pump in the room.
So , I could pump during the night then, because it's a huge trigger again, to feel like I'm not only I'm abandoning my family, but also I can't feed my child. So it was this huge thing. And I'm into nurse there. Her name was Carole. And she was like child, my child, you're going to put your app away. You're going to put your books away. You're going to put Google away and you're going to trust yourself, you know, like you're, you're, let's start from scratch. Let's learn how to believe in yourself as a mother and rebuild that identity. And they gave me medicine for depression. They gave me medicine for sleep. They gave me some for anxiety and for someone who always thought I can handle everything by myself with medication and exercise, I was like, yes, give me all the drugs. All the drugs and it was life changing. I understood that I should have had been on depression medication before that I had things yes.
To deal with in therapy, but that medication was, was the way to go for now. And actually that I was able to thrive and never in a million years, I would have thought I would do it again. But I did. And this time, and this is also when I started to face as a postpartum is in this hospital room.
I was like, I had finally the space to be somebody else. And someone I used to be, which was someone who created things and made things. And I was not just a dairy cow with cracked nipples. And her little bottle of APNO cream next to that. Was somebody else. You were a mom. Exactly. I was a mom, but I was also like, again, you were yourself again.
Exactly. But yeah, I wrote. and of course it was not like it didn't deal with every, everything. Like literally the, I stood there for a week. They discharged me, Mike, I think the anxiety hit him. Collapsed. Super sick vomited for three days straight. And so I went straight back into pure tortured mind and stuff.
My therapist was actually very upset. She was like, you needed more time. Of course you thrived with a super rigid schedule and people caring for you. But at least I knew what to do. I had more tools in my toolbox, so within a year I gained confidence and also had help and figured out what to do, what to do, but also what I wanted my postpartum, my next postpartum period to do so I think in a way going through that prepared me to say, Oh, I can prepare that too.
And this is something that I feel is lacking is. The fact that we prepare pregnancy, we prepare birth. We prepare to conceive, but we don't prepare for postpartum. We don't promote the more now, but Generally speaking, we don't prepare parents. Right. And women and people for, for the postpartum period.
Then. So when I got pregnant with Birdie her name is Billie Rose, I was like, I want a home bith knowing that it might not happen like that, but at least. I wanted to trust myself and I, I did a postpartum plan, which was absolutely wonderful. It was all the things from places that deliver food. I love to the number, phone number of my therapist, the phone number of my doctor's phone number of my psychiatrist.
And just in case something happens. My friend Mara Watt, who's also a therapist calls it. If shit hit the fan plan, and this is it. We were lucky we hired the postpartum doula to make sure like we would be taken care of. And so this time around was, was much easier.
Her birth was more eventful. I labored for 31 hours. Supposedly second kids, right? Yeah. This one . Lou was 18 hours and she was 31 and at 25, I was like, what the hell is wrong with her? And when we checked we discovered her chin was not in, so she couldn't actually go into the birth canal. So we did a maneuver in the house and broke my water, hoping it would make things faster . And it did make things faster, but then she wouldn't come out and her heart didn't like it, then she was tired. So we had to call the EMT, which I was kind of, Oh, God damn it. You know, like 31 hours so close. But I need to be transferred.
Firefighters come EMT comes. I go down the steps because my bedroom was upstairs and gravity did its job and I gave birth in the steps.
Bianca: [00:54:16] Oh my Lord, Jesus.
My midwife caught her. She came out like a little fishy. Woo. And I have this video of myself holding birdie. The door was wide open, so my neighbors heard everything and it was October.
So it was kind of cold. And so at some point, all you hear is my midwives saying maybe we should close the front door. Because the three EMTs were just like, what happened? Yep. All I see is my midwife not wanting any help because she's like, I was so afraid that if they would give me any help, they would take you away.
They would be like, no, we need to take her now because we started care.
So, I grabbed my stuff and went back up. With my baby on me saying, I think my vagina just exploded. And my midwife saying, yeah, sometimes that's its job.
And it was amazing, you know she gave me the choice. She was like, do you want to just spend time with your baby? I was like, I feel something tore down there. Please just handle that before I I enjoy my baby.
It was everything. It was everything to be able to be in my bed. It was everything to have people care for my house while that happened. And I just stayed in bed for as long as I could. Which is good. It was absolutely wonderful. It was hard and it was tiring and exhausting, but I had tools this time and it was just so different and I also allow myself to not work.
And of course, you know, it's still filled with guilt and strong emotions. And am I enough? And you know, pediatricians, I switched pediatrician after that first. I called Elizabeth and I was like, this pediatrician is a shit show. Find me another one. I didn't say that like that, but she found me like this amazing man.
Ariane: [00:56:01] I think, I mean, if I could, I would marry him. And I know now for a fact that a lot of moms would marry him too!
Bianca: [00:56:07] Your doctors are like one of the most amazing people that could come into your life, literally learning your body, like no one.
Ariane: [00:56:15] And they can be the most amazing people or they can destroy you.
Bianca: [00:56:18] That is correct.
Ariane: [00:56:18] Choose them and to have the privilege to choose them is amazing.
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
Thank you so much for listening to faces of postpartum the podcast. If you have any show ideas comments or inquiries, you can reach us at podcast@facesofpostpartum.com.
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